14c28n steel vs d2

But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. Cronidur 30 Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. They differ little in composition and treatment. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? CPM154 is a truly superior steel. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. 1. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. Choose a factor below to start sorting. I tested its edge wear resistance but not its toughness yet. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. can you strike twice as fast with the knife? Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? I have a Winkler Knives Recon model in 5160 steel and even though the knife model is ok, the steel is shit. 1095. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. 440A The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). S35VN are after the ratings. 440C steel There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. For instance, if a 35 edge in 1095 steel at 58 Rc provides appropriate toughness for planing hardwood, what edge angle in, say, AEB-L at 62 Rc might give us a comparable effective toughness? 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. I wont go into detail about those here. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. Why do knives make the best gifts? Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Sorry about the misinformation. Id like to quote some of your toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance for balanced midfield steels, including yours, in some data tables. 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. Oh, thats great, thanks. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? drop point show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Around 61 Rc usually. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. 8am-5pm Saturday. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. While 14C28N and D2 are both pretty to look at, buyers always regard one over the other. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. Perhaps a bigger issue with the upper temper is for stainless steels, as there is a significant reduction in corrosion resistance by tempering at 1000F instead of 400F. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. . quite possibly the best steel youll find on a sub-$30 production knife. While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. CPM 10V Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. Interesting. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. 1.4116 While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Privacy Policy. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Its soft, with very low carbon content. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. Which knife for best? Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. . SUS410 There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. Without any confusion, you can purchase this set that has a slim, versatile, modified drip-point blade with good slicing capabilities. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. Manage Settings Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. Contact me if you have any questions or input! second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. grivory This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. S45VN In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? MC66 Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. . But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. Fine-carbide knife steels. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. how much more can you bend/pry with it? Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon.. It was originally developed for use as ball-bearing steel by NASA. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. rex 121 This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science.

Mahlkonig E65s Vs Mythos, Richard Gordon Obituary, Articles OTHER