winchester model 12 simmons rib

H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. (no choke stamp on barrel). Most books say they did not. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB Pictures are of the item listed. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. I believe the blueing to be original. Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. Action works perfectly. Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. Learn how your comment data is processed. This likely was the last mention of solid ribs in Winchester literature. The duck gun was discontinued in 1963. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. Ab steadies the boat. There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Manufactured in 1959. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. Not sure how many of you know this, but the rib has a serial number stamped on the underside of them with the same number stamped on the underside of the barrel. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. JavaScript is disabled. custom bolt act. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. When it was. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. . The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. The marsh is in riot! Bore and action are excellent. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Regards Chuck. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Everything functions as it should. This little shotgun appears to have never been assembled and and has a 28 inch full choke barrel. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. is 14" with pad. Thanks for the reference. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Title. The stock finish is original and excellent. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. That way, were helping small businesses in Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. My 1953 duck gun has the factory solid rib. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Click here for more information. Most websites are poorly $899.97. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. These ribs have Simmons markings. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. The number of pellet holes was divided by the average number of pellets in the load to produce the pattern percentage. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Every cowboy needs a revolver. I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. bolt act. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. 2. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Advanced . Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. Very good condition overall. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your Item. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. And our It looks like it is in very good shape. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. Produced in 1961. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. $550 USD. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. community. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. Simmons vent rib installed. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. It is at my engraver now. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. Can you help me out? Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. Buckinghams tests led him to buy his own custom Super Fox, Bo Whoop. Bo Whoop patterned about 90% at 40 yards with specially bored barrels. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. Consider the possibility of a hang-fire, an occasional event in 1912, in a gun without the slide lock feature. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. 1934 skeet grade offerd. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. Bids. Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct?

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